So feminists have achieved their revolution? Women are equal? Our rights have been won in our enlightened country?Apparently not as far as law enforcement in Texas is concerned. For weeks we have been hearing about the round-up of women and children from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints in west Texas. We've learned that men there have been marrying and having sex with under-aged girls and until now we were told that the lead which led to the law's move on the compound came from one of those girls now 15. It was bad enough that this "lead" was given to law enforcement a year ago. But today it comes out according to that Schleichler Counter Sheriff David Doran has had an informant in the church compound for
But this upstanding representative of the public's civil rights has this to say:"We are aware that this group is capable of (sexually abusing young girls)," Doran said. "But there again this is the United States. We are going to respect them. We're not going to violate their civil rights until we get an outcry. I've said that from day one."There you see? Forced marriage is only important if women and girls living in a compound under the control of men complain to outside authorities. Otherwise they should just be left to the control of their men who today are weeping as the chapel where the marriage beds are is being searched. I would like to give each of those men a red-hot iron handkerchief for their tears. This is the United States. We are going to respect the rights of adults to force sexual behavior on underaged girls. We are going to respect the rights of men to hold women and girls captive. Have I got that right?I am too angry to breathe. The next person who tells me we women have it made will be lucky to walk away without my teeth in his/her throat. Please don't tell me I am too angry. I am too intense. This walking piece of privilege has simply said what far too many people in this world still believe that civil rights are for citizens--white men--and the rest of us can wait in line.
.. WHAT. I hope the people that voted that prick into office run him out of town with a branding iron shoved up his ass. You know this shit is going on for four years and yet you 'respect their rights'?? That's not even an issue of women's rights at that point that's blatantly ignoring the fucking LAW. Add it in that he clearly doesn't give a shit about these poor girls... Christ on a cracker. Assholes. Pardon my language stuff like that makes me RAWR.
I had someone who didn't understand the entirety of the situation (underage girls forced into marriage and raped by their 'husbands') who said. "I don't understand why we can't just leave them alone to do what they're doing?"That poor poor fucker. He now considers himself well and truly schooled and deeply apologetic.
WHAT. You're not too angry. That is an unbelievable statement to come from a law enforcement officer. At least. I wish it was unbelievable... They'll probably say they were waiting for someone who would testify or some such prevarication. Doesn't matter. It's still unconscionable."Respect a group capable of abusing young girls"WHAT. (Sorry. It's just.. extra WHAT-worthy.)
That is pretty ridiculously horrific.. and I guess that's why I believe in feminism so strongly; because to me it's second nature that women are necessarily equal and it still surprises me that not everyone has come to this conclusion. That's why I despair of it sometimes; what kind of circumstances exactly socialized my gender attitudes differently than these Texans??
I'm balanced somewhere between rage sarcasm and bursting into tears. And since I don't see my therapist again until Tuesday. I'm gonna go with the sarcasm because that's easier to cope with on my own.[sarcasm on]This is just the kind of liberal thinking that is destroying America thinking that women and children have rights. Don't you know that some guy *said* the Bible says it's perfectly reasonable to treat women and children like this? And if a guy who sometimes stands behind a pulpit *says* that then it MUST be true. Why would you take away people's God-given right to control anyone they perceive as weaker than they are?[/sarcasm off]Nah the sarcasm didn't help. Now all I have is sobbing and rage. The whole concept of allowing abuse in the name of civil rights makes me so furious I can't think. But if I can't think then the only solution I can come up with is doing work to help people heal *after* abuse and doing education to try to prevent people from being abusers and there are people in this world with their heads so far up.. well. There are people in this world who will refuse to be changed no matter how much someone tries to educate them because somewhere in their heads they got the notion that it is actually APPROPRIATE to do things like that. Please heaven let the hell abusers experience after they die consist of knowing exactly what they did how it impacted the people they abused and then having to live with that forever.
"We are aware that this group is capable of (sexually abusing young girls)," Doran said. "But there again this is the United States. We are going to respect them. We're not going to violate their civil rights until we get an outcry. I've said that from day one."Wait a minute when was "forcing underage girls into sexual relations" part of our civil rights bills? Holy shit. I must have been wrongly educated all this time. Thank you to Doran for setting the record straight. [/sarcasm]
They've known about it? And they haven't done anything to stop it in the past four years?? That is abominable! D:< I thought it was odd that it took a phone call from someone inside the compound because you'd assume that outsiders who knew about the compound would have grown suspicious but four frakking years?? What the hell?
. wait what and I was being worried at 17 that I might get my guy (who is.. rather a bit older than I) in trouble if caught snogging him?WHAT THE ****??... I am certainly someone who knows there's a gray side to the statutory rape laws but GOOD GRIEF! Forced into marriage? That takes it out of "statutory" and straight into plain old "rape." O:p And it took the bugger a year to act on a complain? With no investigation for four years? The informant wasn't complaining is that it??
I admit I was cynical enough to think that there were in government or law enforcement who knew what was going on but in the sense of know but can't prove and therefore can't interfere. The news that there was someone on the inside for four YEARS has me so unbelievably angry! That's flat out condoning what was going on. You're not too angry- this is completely horrific and I hope a lot of people are just as outraged!
I've been following this story since.. oh.. six or seven years ago. I was raised Mormon* so in a Bizarro universe where several of my ancestors made a slightly different choice. I'd have been one of those girls. It kinda strikes home when you think about it in those terms has a round up of some posts on the subject. It's not just the girls that are harmed by this either. Read my post on Babyland the cemetery outside Hildale/Colorado City in Utah where a disproportionate number of young boys lie buried. The boys who aren't the favoured sons of favoured followers often get run out of town and end up on the streets of Vegas as drug-addicts or prostitutes. All the kids have paranoid views of what the outside world is really like. One of the two girls that escaped a few years back returned to a polygamous life because she felt alien and inadequate. They are under-educated and quite often virtual slaves to the polygamy clans. Orrin Hatch long incumbent senator in Utah has called the polygamists among the finest people he knows of. I was kind of hoping that by moving from Arizona/Utah to Texas that the polygs would piss somebody off enough to bring this to the attention to the nation. I'm absolutely not sorry this happened and as far as I'm concerned it hasn't come a day too soon. This is not just about religious practises it's about indoctrinating women and children into accepting a form of slavery. It's about men using religion to cloak their rape. *Mainstream Mormons disavowed the practise of polygamy in order to gain statehood for Utah. When they did a bunch of followers declared the LDS church apostate and founded the FLDS church which is the group you see in Texas. But Mormons themselves have never really smacked down the polygamy group and the one time before there was a federal raid it went down badly.
Thanks for the anger. I've been deliberately not reading the articles about this whole mess because I knew I'd get pissed once I did. Because I'm confused why it took this long. These compounds are not invisible. The locals know about it all as do the states. I had figured that nothing was done due to a combination of subornation of the local authorities (fox guarding the chickenhouse and all that) with a side of prosecutors afraid of getting to trial and not having enough evidence. But having a mole/source for four years? Angry now.
Anyone who says you're too angry about this needs to be smacked upside the head. I'm all for letting grown adults to what they want to themselves and to their consenting partners but did you catch certain key words there? When the hell was it ever a 'right' to rape a child? I need a reallyreallreally big stress ball.
It's the law. The law states that they cannot get a warrant to search something like the compound without a complaint. Not a inside source. Someone has to call the cops and cry for help. In less isolated groups that's often teachers councilors pastors etc. -- The Mandatory Reporting groups who can report suspicion out the wazoo and not have anything happen. However without a direct voluntary report from a victim or witness to law enforcement or one of the mandatory reporting groups it's suspicion and not enough grounds to issue a warrant. The call out was it. The sheriff was right. We have to respect these people's civil rights just as much as we have to hold our own dear. That's what it is supposed to mean to live in America that the law doesn't violate anyone's rights. And as slimy as these people are they are also entitled to those rights until they are proven guilty under the law. You see this pretty often in domestic abuse cases where the cops can't do anything because s/he goes to the hospital and keeps claiming that they "fell" or "had an accident" and those aren't really fist marks all over their body. Legally it's not assault rape abuse or anything if the victim maintains that it's not and/or won't press charges.
As much as I want to share in your anger. I've spent many years already angry at the FLDS. Warren Jeffs and the entire clusterfuck in Colorado City. While your rage is fresh. I've been on a slow burn since I was 17. I've been an ex-Mormon for about seven years. I researched my way right out of the church and part of what I studied was precisely this situation. It's been known for much much longer than four years. Go Google Ruby Jessop or the Tapestry Against Polygamy. Authorities have known about the rampant abuses since at least the Short Creek raid back in the fifties. Every so often a woman will escape or a boy will be driven out of the community and while the stories they tell are horrific they are treated more as anomalies of a quaint religion gone wrong than victims of a systematic abuse. I've been following the entire case avidly. I cheered when Warren Jeffs made it on to the FBI Top 10 Most Wanted and cheered even louder when he was caught. It was a great day for me when he was found guilty. And I cheered when I read about the women being taken out of the compound. Instead of saying. "What took you so long?" I instead say. "Finally!"At least things are getting better. They were terrible years ago but now they're getting better. I get to watch the slow dissolution of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.. and it's awesome.
"... We're not going to violate their civil rights until we get an outcry. I've said that from day one."This guy clearly is mixing his misogyny with an obsession with Waco (like many Texas law enforcement) and is either a) made stupid by his fear of ending up in a face-off with a cult or b) a right wing nut who thinks the incident was some Clinton DoJ engineered massacre. Either I'm sure he has no problem violating the rights of gays minorities or any rowdy teens who lack the right connections - but all those types inherently have someone making an outcry about them.
Please don't tell me I am too angry. I am too intense. This walking piece of privilege has simply said what far too many people in this world still believe that civil rights are for citizens--white men--and the rest of us can wait in line. You are not too angry. You are certainly not too intense. I found your quote absolutely shocking a bad take-the-breath-away moment at the end of a day; I almost can't believe someone could say that and not realize not understand exactly what it is he's saying.
Be angry. Be fierce. We need you to be. We need every woman to be. We need every man to be. This sort of thing is against everything that I believe our Constitution and our country ideally to stand for. As long as people are complacent about it about the blatant lack of regard for women as equals we need people to be angry and to be fierce and intense and directed with their anger.
I'm assuming like some others have said that the Sheriff was waiting for enough eveidence that the case wouldn't be thrown out of court. I can only pray that's what the hold-up was. Someone above referred to a law that says a victim has to report the crime. These kids (boys and girls) are so conditioned to just accept it so those reports are few and far between. I just hope that the counseling these women and children should be getting will be enough to help them develop a sense of self rather than the idea they are simply objects to be owned by the men in their lives.
I agree it's outrageous. Absolutely absurd. However. I can ALMOST understand.. the DA,etc wanted to make sure that every duck was in a row. Because there is that pesky thing about religious freedom he has to contend with. They had to make absolutely sure they were doing things right or else a good lawyer would have had those girls RIGHT BACK THERE inside of a day. Sometimes it's hard to comprehend that patience is prudent and it SUCKS to no end. I don't disagree with that - those girls were suffering! But in the end they'll be free forever instead of put back inside of that hellhole because of some loophole that says their religion takes precedence over the girls' human rights. Angry that there are people in the world who believe there's nothing WRONG with that kind of thing? Oh hell yeah. Furious. Those men if you can call them that deserve some time in the pokey with a roommate named Bubba.
Hi was linked here hope you don't mind me commenting. I certainly share your outrage at this happening in our day and age. The outrage at women being treated like chattel. I've been beating my head against a wall about this for over 15 years. While again. I understand how angry you are it's important to note that the way this is being handled is exactly how it should have been done. Please understand that this is a topic I'm intimate with (my extended family is polygamist) and if you care to read about some of my info. But as someone who knows about how this organization works how they have a network for shuttling people out of the country etc. it took this long for them to get all their ducks in a row and get them out. Horrific? Yes. But this way they were able to get ALL the children and most of the mothers and they've never been able to do that before. It's frustrating that this happens but I couldn't be more proud of the Texas Rangers and the police force in El Dorado for how they've gone about executing this.
Related article:
http://tammy212.livejournal.com/34277.html
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